from master debaters FB
- You, Janet Ledbetter Thoma and 4 others like this.
Alex Asaro Who says those soldiers, policemen, and other members of the armed forces, would side with the gov over their own families?
Johnny Ganjaseed "You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass." Isoroku Yamamoto
- Alex Asaro Not really soup, I am just saying IT IF DID happen, which i dont think it is, the troops arent gonna side with congress
- Soup McGee ---btw--: http://soupsauntieoxymoron.blogspot.com/2012/12/the-anti-government-attitude-espoused.html
An intentional misreading of the intent of the treaty as well as the power and enforcement ability of the United Nations on multiple levels is hereby uncovered. Understanding the why behind the fear mongering seen in Lee’s speech exposes the how. This is from an expose in The Baffler on the money-making schemes used by the religious Right in America to fund their theocratic coup:
“The typical ploy ran a little something like this, from Heritage Foundation founder Paul Weyrich’s Free Congress Research and Education Foundation:
Dear Friend:
Do you believe that children should have the right to sue their parents for being “forced” to
attend church?
Should children be eligible for minimum wage if they are being asked to do household
chores?
Do you believe that children should have the right to choose their own family?
As incredible as they might sound, these are just a few of the new “children’s rights laws” that could become a reality under a new United Nations program if fully implemented by the Carter administration.
If radical anti-family forces have their way, this UN sponsored program is likely to become an all-out assault on our traditional family structure.
Following the standard scare-mongering playbook of the fundraising Right, Weyrich launched his appeal with some horrifying eventuality that sounded both entirely specific and hair-raisingly imminent--Closer inspection reveals the looming horror to be built on a non-falsifiable foundation (“could become”; “is likely to become”). This conditional prospect, which might prove discouraging to a skeptically minded mark, is all the more useful to reach those inclined to divide the moral universe in two—between the realm of the wicked, populated by secretive, conspiratorial elites, and the realm of the normal, orderly, safe, and sane.”
Since the problem isn’t the United Nations but in fact, man being governed by man’s law, how can this group remove a common enemy, the US government? Easy, says Grover Norquist, gleefully holding the American Checkbook in his vault, easy. End taxation. Limit severely the federal government’s ability to tax its citizens. From the Americans for Tax Reform Website, the following is from a letter Grover wrote to the conservative movement as a whole:
“The deficit was the difference between two more important numbers—how much the federal government took from the American people by force in taxes and how much the federal government spent each year. By the 1980s liberals discovered they could use concern over the deficit to oppose tax cuts and to push for tax hikes.
Now that the federal budget is in balance—indeed in substantial surplus—it is the right time for the conservative movement to establish a new goal. We said we wanted to balance the federal budget—we did. Now what? What is the measure of our success or failure in the years and decades to come?
I recommend that we set the goal of reducing the cost and size of government by half over the next twenty-five years—one generation. Why half? Because it is a large enough challenge to be worth the candle. Because it is eminently doable. Why a twenty-five year time horizon? Because it will take time to turn the nation around. Because we have to expect to have setbacks, lost opportunities, bad election years, wars and recessions. Certainly, we would welcome achieving our goal of "In Half" in a shorter time frame.
There are four measures of the size and scope of government. We should look to cut each in half over the next twenty-five years.”
Here is Grover’s description of those four measures:
“#1 – Total government spending as a percentage of the economy.
#2 – The cost of all government regulations as a percentage of the economy.
#3 – Total government employment: How many Americans work for the government at all levels.
#4 – Total assets controlled by government.”
Please note that Grover mentions a ‘substantial surplus’ in this letter. America is certainly not holding a current ‘substantial surplus,’ thus the reasoning here is easily questioned. Further, this disrespect and disconnect from what is empirical is suggestive of Senator Lee’s steadfast refusal to accept Constitutional precedent as legal precedent. See, that’s man’s law, not God’s law. Find and read a list of signatories to this contract; by and large, the signatory holds these views and acts upon them as a member representative of the American people. Grover, as evinced by Lee’s speech on behalf of the noxious Norquist coalition, is the fulcrum modern American society wobbles upon. ---
Soup's Auntie OxyMoron: The anti-government attitude espoused by Lee is making America all feverish.soupsauntieoxymoron.blogspot.com While the State exists, there can be no freedom. When there is freedom there wil...See More - Alex Asaro The UN blows because they appease theocracies and tell all industrialized nations to respect Islam, screw that
Max Willis Fact is not all Police Officers and Soldiers enter you home with good intentions; therefore, if their intentions are bad... the answer is yes.- Soup McGee -- hey I can break it up into smaller pieces so its easier to digest if you need me too --
- Don Harms-Jones So the baggers admit to being treasonous. Whatever happened to My country right or wrong?
- Herman Moody All cultures should respect all cultures as we are all human. Only idiots like Alex Asaro live in fear. People like Alex are selfish and ignorant, and are the people who should be kicked to the curb, not Islam.
- Alex Asaro Max Willis Fact is not all Police Officers and Soldiers enter you home with good intentions.
THAT - Alex Asaro No Herman, I should have the right to mock Any religion, whether it be the Amish, Islam, or Christianity
- Alex Asaro No good intentions= cutting foreign aid to 3rd world shitholes with no chances of progressing into modern times?
Sign me up! 
Tony Nicol When was the last time that you used your gun, to protect yourself against the elected government? Just out of interest, when was the last time anybody in the US did it?- Soup McGee -- the UN is an exercise in democratic theory...chances are you hate the UN because you don't trust Government at all and cannot recognize the American Fundamentalist Nativist Christian Coup lead by a Randian subculture and a military ravaged y 'the Holy Spirit' first at the Federal Level than at the state followed by the local sheriffs we keep hearing about-- you watch they finna try--- You on their side or America's? Everyone? Anyone?
- Johnny Ganjaseed the point tony, is to be prepared...I'm not scared of a fire in my house, but I have a fire extinguisher just in case
- Alex Asaro I just don't like the US being part of forced groups, screw that, let Sudan and other shitholes deal with their own problems
- Soup McGee http://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/74/700/case.html :
"4. The Union of the States never was a purely artificial and arbitrary relation. It began among the Colonies, and grew out of common origin, mutual sympathies, kindred principles, similar interests, and geographical relations. It was confirmed and strengthened by the necessities of war, and received definite form and character and sanction from the Articles of Confederation. By these, the Union was solemnly declared to "be perpetual." And, when these Articles were found to be inadequate to the exigencies of the country, the Constitution was ordained "to form a more perfect Union."
5. But the perpetuity and indissolubility of the Union by no means implies the loss of distinct and individual existence, or of the right of self-government by the States. On the contrary, it may be not unreasonably said that the preservation of the States and the maintenance of their governments are as much within the design and care of the Constitution as the preservation of the Union and the maintenance of the National government. The Constitution, in all its provisions, looks to an indestructible Union composed of indestructible States.
"
supreme.justia.comTexas v. White - 74 U.S. 700 (1868)Share|Syllabus Case U.S. Supreme CourtTexas v...See More 
- Alex Asaro How Am I selfish? Because I don't want my government sending 35 billion to foreign shitholes who live in the 12 century? So be it
- Tony Nicol Johny Johnny Ganjaseed. Fires occur all the time, but when did an elected US government attack it's citizens? What defences have you got against an meteor strike? Far more chance of that happening.
- Johnny Ganjaseed meteor strikes I can't control...preparing for a fire or for terrorist attacks is different
Jason McAleese Ah yes the ever present threat of the Red Dawn movie cast and crew showing up in your town.- Soup McGee -- do you deny Sovereign Citizens are Terrorists? http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/12/nd_sheriff_used_predator_drone_to_arrest_sovereign.php
tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com A family of “sovereign citizens” in North Dakota was arrested with the help of a...See More - Soup McGee -- domestic drones...alex, you mentioned them...did the terrorists mentioned in the article not absolve themselves of their citizenship?
- Alex Asaro Do I think sovereign citizens are terrorists? No, I do think they have legitimate reasons to be angry, just like the Tea Party and OWS.
I do feel gangbangers In Chicago and other major cities to be the biggest threats - Johnny Ganjaseed "Janet Farrell Johnson Logic has never been the Right wing's strong suit!"
oh, as if you're an intellectual heavyweight, how about this from one of my other posts?
"Janet Farrell Johnson people have to be delusional if they can't admit that gun ownership has to be more closely regulated to cut down on accidental deaths in homes due to careless gun owners."
accidents due to carelessness will not be stopped or even phased in the slightest by mandating universal gun registration or by banning the manufacture/sale of high capacity mags/"assault" weapons
"Janet Farrell Johnson Also, remember the number of deaths due to "friendly fire"--lots of mistakes are made oversized when you're dealing with semiautomatic weapons."
military uses fully automatic weapons, derp...and that's not due to the rifle being used, but the chaos of war
"Janet Farrell Johnson Also, semiautomatic firearms and large magazines have no place in civilian hands."
just from the prior two statements I copied, you have no idea what you're talking about...semi-automatic firearms covers everything from a .22 Ruger 10/22 (used for squirrels etc) to a .22 semi-auto pistol or most any other pistol for that matter.... - Leopold Irvin Bloom Timmy McVeigh and Terry Nichols weren't terrorists? What were they Alex??? Freedom fighters????
- Alex Asaro The last shooting by a racist was in August of Last year
The last murder by gang members was done a few days ago - Alex Asaro Leopold Irvin Bloom They're trying to KILL YOU Alex....
Ah, fear mongering, trying to create a white boogeyman that you all so dread? - Tony Nicol Johnny Terrorist attacks? They're going to come all the way from Iran, Pakistan, or where ever, just to attack you? Wow, that sounds a real likelihood. Better stock up well. Rigg a few trip wires too. Have you CCTV?
- Alex Asaro http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/crime-scene/post/suspect-in-shooting-at-family-research-council-indicted-on-terrorism-charge/2012/10/24/ab195792-1e09-11e2-b647-bb1668e64058_blog.html
Was this guy a terrorists too?
www.washingtonpost.comFloyd Lee Corkins II, authorities say, shot an unarmed security guard. - Leopold Irvin Bloom so, if you ally yourself with Al Qaeda...then you're fear mongering when they say they're trying to kill you..what fucking bizzaro world do you live in, Alex???
- Jason McAleese Once in 238 years Blake, so even more rare than a meteor strike. Arguably there was legal cause and it didn't just come out of the blue, as a matter of libertarian philosophy the rebels were the initiators of force. But then if rebels had won, they would've written the history books.
- Leopold Irvin Bloom You know, Alex...Al Qaeda killed a few of our folks awhile back...but we're not allowed to kill them now..because that's fear mongering...You're a bit confused, son...
- Alex Asaro The Taliban are crazy and insane, but they are a small group of "terrorists" who's power is nothing more than a joke
- Leopold Irvin Bloom These people you are defending RENOUNCED their American citizenship TO JOIN AL QAEDA!!!!
- Soup McGee -- Alex Asaro Do I think sovereign citizens are terrorists? No, I do think they have legitimate reasons to be angry, just like the Tea Party and OWS.
I do feel gangbangers In Chicago and other major cities to be the biggest threats
a few seconds ago · Like -- really? http://www.fbi.gov/news/podcasts/thisweek/extremism.mp3/view http://www.ctc.usma.edu/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/ChallengersFromtheSidelines.pdf "Another development that may be responsible for the growing concerns and awareness of a revival of the militia movement is the growing popularity of the Sovereign Citizens (SC). Simply put, the SC opposes formal governmental regulation of their “rights” which they define in highly expansive terms. For example, SC members refuse to apply for a driver’s license and car registration— because they believe the Federal government should not regulate their right to drive. SC members also refuse to pay income tax because they view this as an infringement on their right to work for a living." Are you saying here and now on a pulic phone line that you support the activities of known domestic terrorists? 'cos-- that is what - Alex Asaro Do I think sovereign citizens are terrorists? No, I do think they have legitimate reasons to be angry, just like the Tea Party and OWS.
I do feel gangbangers In Chicago and other major cities to be the biggest threats looks like ---ExtremismUnknown Artist - Unknown Album - Alex Asaro How am I making up an EXTREME? You seriously believe the taliban to be one of the most deadliest enemies? What about China? Russia? Iran?
Ty TheMan http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/19/bill-maher-gun-rights-privacy_n_2511378.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000009
www.huffingtonpost.comBill Maher dressed down the gun lobby on his first "Real Time" of 2013, but not ...See More- Soup McGee - really? http://www.fbi.gov/news/podcasts/thisweek/extremism.mp3/view http://www.ctc.usma.edu/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/ChallengersFromtheSidelines.pdf "Another development that may be responsible for the growing concerns and awareness of a revival of the militia movement is the growing popularity of the Sovereign Citizens (SC). Simply put, the SC opposes formal governmental regulation of their “rights” which they define in highly expansive terms. For example, SC members refuse to apply for a driver’s license and car registration— because they believe the Federal government should not regulate their right to drive. SC members also refuse to pay income tax because they view this as an infringement on their right to work for a living." Are you saying here and now on a pulic phone line that you support the activities of known domestic terrorists? 'cos-- that is what - Alex Asaro Do I think sovereign citizens are terrorists? No, I do think they have legitimate reasons to be angry, just like the Tea Party and OWS.
I do feel gangbangers In Chicago and other major cities to be the biggest threats looks like ---ExtremismUnknown Artist - Unknown Album - Alex Asaro Thuggery, looting, and robbery, combined with homicides>>>> "Extremism"
Chicago is a prime example of uncivilized people who have to steal from others because they cant get a real job - Leopold Irvin Bloom Alex...you're not making a bit of sense...you're just deflecting and twisting your way to try and hold an untenable position...
- Alex Asaro http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/terror/terrorism-2000-2001
www.fbi.govAs the events of September 11, 2001, demonstrated with brutal clarity, the terro...See More - Johnny Schu Alex,You are extreme right now. However you are so young and sheltered that you don't realize it, much like your buddy Joe does not understand the online culture.
- Soup McGee ollie Halpern: The FBI is focused on disrupting potential violence by members of the sovereign citizen extremist movement.
I’m Mollie Halpern of the Bureau, and this is FBI, This Week. Sovereign citizens reject the authority of government and renounc...See More - Alex Asaro OK, So sovereign citizens are more like old white farts resisting taxes while dressing up as if they lived in the 1800's, I am shaking in my boots, How does that pose a threat to me?
Some gang member thug busting into my house and threatening me is very real - Soup McGee ---While many still tend to ignore the fact that the American far right is an accumulation of different actors, and place most of its components in the same analytical category, the current study has illustrated that these different components are not merely driven by competing ideological tenets, but are also significantly idiosyncratic in the ways they manifest their ideology in the operational, often violent, realm. This illustrates that ideology and behavior are linked and nurture each other in the organizational frameworks of the American violent far right. From a theoretical perspective, this constitutes a further indication of the perception among some parts of the academic community that terrorism is an instrument of symbolic discourse which is shared by violent groups and their adversaries. Target selection is thus not based just on operational considerations, but is one component, among others, which allows violent groups to shape their message using violent practices—timing, weapons used and target locations, are only a small measure of the other components which contribute to the shape of the symbolic message conveyed via the attack. In this context, policy implications are clear. If the numerous far right groups are driven by different ideological sentiments, and are thus also engaged in distinguishing tactics, then the response in terms of counterterrorism policies must be flexible and group/movement oriented.---www.fbi.gov/news/podcasts/thisweek/extremism.mp3/viewExtremismUnknown Artist - Unknown Album
- Soup McGee still think gangbangers are worse than what teh GOV considers a domestic threat to natl security?
- Leopold Irvin Bloom Lets see if you can understand this concept..ALex..when you renounce your citizenship and join Al Qaeda...you're NOT..I repeat, YOU ARE NOT a citizen anymore...
- Alex Asaro The government that bombs foreign countries for their oil? Why should i trust fear mongerers who divide and conquer?
- Alex Asaro http://health.usnews.com/health-news/managing-your-healthcare/articles/2012/01/26/gang-murders-taking-toll-on-young-males-cdchealth.usnews.comMost of these homicides involve guns, but criminal drug activity isn't often a factor
- Soup McGee Alex Asaro Do I think sovereign citizens are terrorists? No, I do think they have legitimate reasons to be angry, just like the Tea Party and OWS.
I do feel gangbangers In Chicago and other major cities to be the biggest threats - Alex Asaro I think some of these fringe groups are amusing, I don't think that they pose more of a threat than the cartels or Illegal immigrants
- Alex Asaro http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2006/winter/la-blackout
Latino Gang Members in Southern California are Terrorizing and Killing Blacks | Southern Poverty Lawwww.splcenter.orgLOS ANGELES, Calif. -- Ascending the steep steps that lead from the street to th...See More
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