Monday, January 27, 2014

Soup Dives Into California Politics, Starting With Prop. 13



This week I chose the LA Times article ‘California Sees Big Tax Boost In December’ because I thought it spoke to many of the same issues raised in the assigned ‘Failed State,’ and can easily be connected to one in the Atlantic online magazine. The main issue in my chosen article is that the last six months have left California with quite a bit more income tax revenue (8% more, in fact) than even the most progressive liberal might have hoped the slight increase approved by voters during Brown’s term would yield. This unexpected boon leaves the same progressives and their less lefty relatives ready to spend the whole chunk, much to the consternation of the Governor (not to mention the ‘Jarvis-Republicans’), who has advised the Legislature to mind their P’s and Q’s, and  save something for a rainy day. Or, in case there Are No More rainy days.  Or if all the libertarian-wealthy leave the state in a new tax revolt. California finds this surplus because we rely on a recent minor increase in the taxation of the states wealthiest ‘people’ (a term I use lightly, in case some of these people are corporate people, in which case they are not persons but people in the eyes of the law). The main actors are Gov. Brown, his budget, the legislative body, and the taxpayers of California.
The article ‘Failed State’ addresses the lack of centrism in California politics since around 1978, and attributes this largely to the passage of Prop 13 (“Proposition 13 drastically scaled back property taxes by revaluing residential and commercial property at their 1975 values, allowing assessments to rise from that point a maximum of 2 percent a year and to be taxed at a maximum of 1 percent that year”). This, the author says, has led to the last thirty years of California being nearly ungovernable. Prop. 104, passed the next year, put a limit on how much the state could spend, effectively handing power to entrenched business and lobbying interests- ending partisanship in California and leading to a ‘crumbling’ of schools, bridges, and other publicly-owned resources. To again quote the article: “The business leaders even deny the obvious--that, by calculating taxes on old homes and factories on the 1975 basis and new homes and factories at prevailing market rates, Proposition 13 has rewarded economic stasis and penalized new investment.”  California has many long-term problems; most seem to stem from Prop. 13 and the resulting ‘conservative populism’ preventing tax increases of any kind (see again, Jarvis Republicans, whom I think of as Norquislings).
In my morning exploration of the news online January 25, I found this excellent piece from the Economist (‘California has won breathing space…’) To quote the article: “Campaigning in 2012, Mitt Romney compared California to European basket-cases like Greece. He would not do so today.” This was something brought up in class; to the point, an inconsequential increase in taxes did not make the sky fall, but instead buttressed California against the current economic turmoil. It goes on to make the point that ‘California is not cured’ and many long term, even ‘chronic’ problems remain. One of these problems is the reliance on a few wealthy for the revenue necessary to provide essential public services; another is public pensions; another is rising poverty. My opinion? Drought may be something that cannot be cured with an increase in property tax rates, but SO MANY of the problems our state faces are symptoms of Prop. 13 and its ideological antecedents. I agree with what I take to be the general tone of ‘Failed State’; a repeal of Prop. 13 and a revaluation of the properties owned by the most politically-connected industries might even lead to that new era of prosperity that Gavin Newsome envisioned in his pre-state-of-the-state. Without raising income taxes.



  



Article Analysis Assignment

First, read a news story from the newspaper or the Internet.  Answer the following questions regarding your news story: 1) What is the main issue, who are the main actors being discussed;  Then, choose one of the assigned articles you read for this week.  Answer the following questions regarding the assigned article: 1) What are the basics of this article (who, what, when, how, why, etc.);  2) What is the overall main point the author is trying to convince you of?  3) Do you agree with the author’s argument?  Why?  Why not?   Finally, tie together your news story with what you learned from the assigned article, textbook readings, podcasts, videos, etc. for this week.  Type your answers in the box below using your own words, no outline or bullets, complete sentences and paragraphs, single-spaced, full-page. 

Thursday, January 23, 2014

Typical Anti-Choicer Soup Remembers From Before



Elijah Cherkez's photo.

Top of Form
Julius Handford False. Of course fetuses are human fetuses. What other kind could they be? The issue is this: no human of any age gets to use another human's body and organs without ongoing consent.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Julius I don't understand what you are protesting or proposing... what is fetus in your statement in refference to? What are you implying. Also what are you reffering to when talking about consent. Are you saying that the baby should consent the mother? Please rephrase or clarify!
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/s32x32/195643_100007109823943_1025703112_q.jpg
Sharon Michelle B MY life...MY body...MY pregnancy...MY choice...THE END.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford Are you some kind of dullard? Everyone knows what I'm saying. You used a strawman argument and I pointed it out.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez clarify please...what are you implying?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford I'm not implying. I'm stating. Your argument is a fallacy.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Yes its a human as you seem to agree! If so, why do you disagree with the statement? What specifically in my post makes you think that it's false?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford Is English not your primary language? Why are you struggling with this concept? You presented a strawman fallacy by suggesting that supporters of reproductive choice seek to represent fetuses as 'not human'. They don't. Everyone knows a fetus in a woman's uterus must be a human fetus. So your whole argument is fallacious. Fail.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez I wished that they would recognize the humanity of that human, instead they either say that it's a blob of tissue, or that it's a fetus, avoiding any hints that it's a human. They want to rather categorize it by it's developmental stage rather then by who they are. If pro-choisers acknowledge that it is a human, then that puts them in a difficult spot...because that would mean that what they are for (abortion) is inhumane.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford A human fetus IS human, and fetus is the correct word. You're upset about people using accurate terminology?? Really?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford Abortion is not inhumane. Meat is, though. Are you vegan?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Yes, terminology matters... read the statement under the two pictures to the left to understand why.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/t5/s32x32/1085773_100001908303475_54144803_q.jpg
Allisyn Joy Kearney Of course a fetus is human- its a developing grouping of human tissue. I think what you are getting human and person mixed up.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez If it's human, then is it okay to take it's life?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/s32x32/195643_100007109823943_1025703112_q.jpg
Sharon Michelle B Do you know everything about your body is human BUT not a human being/person? I think YOU are the one confused.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/t5/s32x32/1085773_100001908303475_54144803_q.jpg
Allisyn Joy Kearney The skin on my hand is human, blood is human, organs are human. What is your point?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn1/t5/s32x32/211362_100006829241550_1705878483_q.jpg
Inga Sjoberg You are confusing 'human' with 'personhood', genius.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Its both a human and a person. I am a scientist and I know that this is a person!
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/186118_100005071261184_1088464530_q.jpg
Samantha Thompson Seeing as if I do not want it in my body and it is only potential for life because most do not make it past the first trimester that is if they do make it past implantation stage.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/s32x32/195643_100007109823943_1025703112_q.jpg
Sharon Michelle B You are NOT a scientist!! Try again.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford Whether its "okay" to take a life has nothing to do with species. Don't be so selfish. It has to do with suffering. Stop making animals suffer for your greedy pleasure.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn1/t5/s32x32/211362_100006829241550_1705878483_q.jpg
Inga Sjoberg Life begins with birth, not conception. You can't claim a fetus on your income taxes because a fetus is not a person. You can't claim a fetus on a census form because a fetus is not a person. You can't buy a life insurance policy for a fetus because (you guessed it!) a fetus is not a person. People are issued birth certificates, not conception certificates. Fun fact: all that is a moot point, because even if a fetus was a person, it is still not entitled to my bodily resources. If you don't have to donate a liver to keep me alive (and boy, has mine taken a pounding....) then I don't have to donate a uterus to keep a fetus alive. Bodily autonomy FTW!
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn1/t5/s32x32/211362_100006829241550_1705878483_q.jpg
Inga Sjoberg I don't care who you are or what you do - you don't get to make my medical decisions or use my body without my consent.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford Lets see your peer reviewed research about personhood. I'll wait.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn1/t5/s32x32/623614_1593304040_215667530_q.jpg
Kristen Knoll Why do they all assume that we are cloistered 12 year olds and don't understand human biology?
And lol at the "scientist" OP who objects to the correct scientific term of FETUS.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/186118_100005071261184_1088464530_q.jpg
Samantha Thompson And technically YOU are a blob of tissue. Cells make tissue, tissue makes organs, organs make the organ system.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1086417_648087923_960047851_q.jpg
Katie Einloth As I stated on NARAL and the other PP page, you only get to make life choices for yourself.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez personhood... science confirms that once a conception happened, this person is a unique individual organism, that is separate from it's mother (it's not part of a mother's body, or an extension of a mother's body, it is unique human individual organism.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/t5/s32x32/1085773_100001908303475_54144803_q.jpg
Allisyn Joy Kearney Elijah- do you think the fetus just floats inside of a woman's uterus? It IS connected to her.

Science does not confirm anything about personhood. A fetus is human- but it is not a person. It is a developing human- a potential human being.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn1/t5/s32x32/211362_100006829241550_1705878483_q.jpg
Inga Sjoberg Being a unique organism doesn't entitle it to residency in my uterus.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/1119131_100006965201378_628647024_q.jpg
Amelia Jones How is it not part of the woman's body? Please explain the belly button to us? And how do its not-fully-formed organs work since they not finished developing ? How does it use the woman's energy, nutrients, and life if it is not part of her body?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Allisyn, I studied the fetal development... it is teathered to the mother by it's own tissues.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford Again, lets see your peer reviewed research.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Inga, what do you mean "residency"? It will certainly not be there for long. Would you please not take a political-way of looking at things but rather focus on facts. If you start merely taking sides without looking at facts, it will trully lead people astray and into serious ethical and moral trouble. Just look at Nazis!
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford the uterus belongs to the woman. She can maintain it any way she wants to. If she wants HER uterus empty, she can have it emptied of any and all contents.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford Everyone drink a shot, he mentioned nazis!
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Amelia, the energy that the baby is using is the the energy created by organs that was already vested in you when you were formed...so even you are a product of your own mother and father.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford The uterus is hers. The end.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford Please tell me what is ethical or moral about reproducing on a planet where millions are already starving?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez The body works in harmony...preparing for the implantation of the zygote, and it welcomes it...not rejects it. It is a natural process and a mutualistic relationship. The uterus is not political as you seem to see it. Is anyone a scientist here? I don't mean that in demeaning tone, but I hope to find a scientist here that we can understand eachother when we write something.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford The woman uses her brain, not her uterus, to decide whether she "welcomes" offspring.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford sweat and body order is also a natural process, but I don't have to accept it. I decide; my sweat glands don't decide for me.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez False, Julius. The process of zygote implantation in the uterus is an involuntary process. Ask any scientist or a doctor. If you see why then you solve one important mystery of life (among many others).
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/211428_100006718364199_1837779938_q.jpg
Hana Rosebud Just because I'm a product of my parents, dearie, doesn't mean I'm under any obligation to breed it forward.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford The removal of an implanted zygote is a choice made by her brain. You lose.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Julius, I am talking about the implantation process that happens in the body naturally after conception. Are you familiar with this biological process? I am not talking about in-vitro fertilization (IVF), laboratory implant of a zygote.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1118022_100000073386342_1898640733_q.jpg
Soup McGee David G. McAfee
To religious believers of all sorts: How do you feel about the Polynesian God Lono? That's exactly how non-believers feel about your god(s).
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford Yes, I'm very familiar with the process. It is reversible by choice. Abortion. The woman decides, not her uterus.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez As a biologist I can guarantee you that you are not reversing it you are tearing the body when you are causing an abortion, and hence the short term and long-term consequences follow, as confirmed by research and medicine.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford Abortion cures an unwanted pregnancy. Deal with it.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford What do you think gets "torn" in a medication induced abortion? Just curious.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/s32x32/195643_100007109823943_1025703112_q.jpg
Sharon Michelle B Please explain how a pill/pills tear a body??!!
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford And you do realize that, generally, the fetus is not sentient. But your lunch was. Which one is the moral problem?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/s32x32/195643_100007109823943_1025703112_q.jpg
Sharon Michelle B I want just one of you anti freaks to explain to me how a pill turns into a Ninja weapon when swallowed.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford Sharon, you're supposed to let your uterus make decisions about your life. Don't you know?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/s32x32/195643_100007109823943_1025703112_q.jpg
Sharon Michelle B So far me and my uterus can been in sync with that Julius. If it screws up, I will take control.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford Like elijah, I don't have a uterus. So I accept that I have no say in whether a woman chooses to give birth or abort.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/s32x32/195643_100007109823943_1025703112_q.jpg
Sharon Michelle B Julius, thank you so much for supporting and respecting women. I have the up-most respect for men like you.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/186118_100005071261184_1088464530_q.jpg
Samantha Thompson I can say this, any child that would carry on my genes would be telling me fuck you every day.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1086417_648087923_960047851_q.jpg
Katie Einloth I agree with that. Anyone who freaks out by the word "fetus" or claims that personhood is defined by science clearly never graduated. I'm sure he flipped the fuck out on the professor on the first day and never went back to class all because the facts didn't align with his opinions.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez I graduated with a degree in Biological Sciences with emphasis in Cellular and Molecular Biology. I am a scientist and worked in Clinical Research for a number of years and now looking forward to go on to medical school. Amelia, please no put downs. I am seeking an honest dialogue, and I hope to do that in a respectful, dignified matter. This is a warning
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Julius do you think only people who have a uterus should speak up against injustice? or speak up for those that can't speak for themselves?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford They didn't teach you the word "fetus"? Get your tuition money back.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez What is fetus in your definition?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford A warning. Haha. He warned you.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1086417_648087923_960047851_q.jpg
Katie Einloth And I'm the president of the United States - see, anyone can claim what they want on the internet.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Please also answer the questions above...don't evade them, please.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford I am the man who invented punk rock.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/s32x32/195643_100007109823943_1025703112_q.jpg
Sharon Michelle B Please answer my question...don't dodge it.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez I would attach my resume or a picture of my degree but I don't want to. Please conduct a conversation as is fitting for a respectful adult, and I promise to do that as well.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford I think only a person with a uterus should decide what grows or does not grow in that uterus. Know what an injustice is? Making more people when millions are starving. And I will speak up about that, yes.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford Animals can't speak for themselves. Why do you eat them?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1086417_648087923_960047851_q.jpg
Katie Einloth Your questions provide zero evidence that abortion should be outlawed. Good try though.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/1115844_732171561_1764842961_q.jpg
Lisa Kitchen Report all his posts just like he's doing to you.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Sharon what is your question again?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford Yeah, I'd post a few of my platinum albums, but I don't feel like it.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/s32x32/195643_100007109823943_1025703112_q.jpg
Sharon Michelle B I have NO respect for anybody trying to take our rights away. NOW answer my question...
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1086417_648087923_960047851_q.jpg
Katie Einloth A resume and a photo of a fake degree is no evidence to your claimed education. Good try though.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez What is the question? Lets stick to the issue that we're discussing... the sanctity of human life.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/s32x32/195643_100007109823943_1025703112_q.jpg
Sharon Michelle B Lisa Kitchen how do you know he's reporting us?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez I am not reporting anyone now...no fear, here to help with some truth and knowledge
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1119024_100004969598191_799626748_q.jpg
Michael Lang I see a fetus as something that is not viable, unable to sustain life outside the womb. It is often argued that the earliest point of viability is around 24 weeks, and even then chances of survival are pretty slim.

If a woman aborts late into her pregnancy, it is almost always out of medical necessity. Do you think women just frivolously have abortions left and right for shits and giggles?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford There are already millions of humans starving. Sanctity? That's a phony concept. I'd settle for wellbeing.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1086417_648087923_960047851_q.jpg
Katie Einloth There is no sanctity of life. Its just a term coined by religious wack jobs to guilt trip their sheep. We are also debating abortion in a SECULAR nation.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford Your knowledge is irrelevant to what a woman chooses to do with her uterus. Deal with that.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1119024_100004969598191_799626748_q.jpg
Michael Lang To compare abortion to, say, the plights of slavery and the Holocaust - you know, REAL atrocities - is a downright insult to those who lived and died in fear simply because of their ethnicity.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1119024_100004969598191_799626748_q.jpg
Michael Lang also

inb4 silent scream lol
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Michael, thanks for sharing your views. A fetus is a medical term to denote the developmental stage in a human life. Something that is dead doesn't need to be classified as "developing" hence it is viable and living where it was meant to be in it's optimal conditions, in nature. We cannot demand something to be removed from it's optimal conditions and expect it to survive. In biology, life and conditions of life(environment) goes hand in hand. Just like I cannot place you on Mars without a space-suit and expect you to survive, so does a prenatal human cannot be placed in environment where it is not meant by nature to be, at it's stage of development.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford Correct. The death of the fetus is incidental. The goal is to remove the fetus from her uterus, ending the unwanted condition of pregnancy.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1086417_648087923_960047851_q.jpg
Katie Einloth Biology =/= legal obligation. You should have learned this in your courses. You keep proving you never graduated.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford we aren't limited to doing only what nature intended. Isn't that wonderful?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/t5/s32x32/211698_1315235298_634133026_q.jpg
Jennifer Graham "The sanctity of human life" hahaha ha! When people start caring about child soldiers, slave labourers making your shoes for next to nothing and starving kids right here in our own country...then we can consider that there is such a thing as the sanctity of human life. Until then, get out.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Jennifer, Julius, Katie...all humanity is responsible for eachother... we are to look out for the least of these, the oppressed, the abused, the disposed in the biohazard bags. I'll do my share and I would ask that you do yours.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford And what's your justification for discriminating against other species?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford I do my share by NOT contributing to population growth while millions starve. What do you do?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/186118_100005071261184_1088464530_q.jpg
Samantha Thompson Fetus means offspring in Latin (something no life person can ever get right). It is the developing offspring of a vertebrae that is in its later stages of development until birth.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1086417_648087923_960047851_q.jpg
Katie Einloth Please do not allow cancer to end up in bio hazard bags!! Love your cancer! Take on your biological responsibility to see cancer's life sustained!
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford What about those bags of hamburgers? They cause pain and suffering to a sentient being. Abortion does not.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1119024_100004969598191_799626748_q.jpg
Michael Lang >disposed in biohazard bags

I smell an appeal to emotion.

How does abortion even remotely compare to those of us who are already alive? Those of us who have already lived and died, gone into another existence?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Cancer comes from the same organism, yet a prenatal human is a unique individual, and doesn't metastasize. Cancer spreads and harm the mother, yet a prenatal human stays in one place, and it works mutualistically with the mother. Medically and scientifically, a prenatal human is not classified as cancer.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1119024_100004969598191_799626748_q.jpg
Michael Lang Save the tumors!
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford She didn't say it was cancer. She made a comparison. Answer my question about discrimination.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1085729_100000705244377_1213512256_q.jpg
Jae Marino "Mystery of life"..."Sanctity of life"...all of that looks great on paper, and sounds wonderful, but...these are really issues that are best discussed over a nice cup of tea and a fat joint with a few equally philosophically-like-minded friends, they have no
real belonging when it comes to bodily autonomy. Existential
crises have no place here, if you want to debate those concepts, go take a philosophy course.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Michael, yes an injustice is emotional...a human being being disposed of as garbage is our moral responsibility to address and speak out against such injustice.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford we have advanced so that we don't have to let our bodily functions, however natural, dictate how we live our lives. Come out of the dark ages.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1118282_100004430322889_1831323329_q.jpg
Jackie Turner You say a foetus is unique. Why does it being unique make it important?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford Whats immoral about disposing of an aborted fetus? Explain.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/t5/s32x32/273910_100003133977001_187989720_q.jpg
Sam Winchest Uhhh pregnancy and labor harms the woman 95 percent of the time, I don't think that's a mutal existence.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1118282_100004430322889_1831323329_q.jpg
Jackie Turner So, you want us to keep our foetuses and not dispose of them? Bit gross.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1119024_100004969598191_799626748_q.jpg
Michael Lang Except a fetus isn't a "human being." At one point in development we were all clumps of cells. So I will disagree with you there.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/623486_1357633743_475495037_q.jpg
Christianne Hudson The same could be said for a parasite, yet we remove them from their optimal environments. A fetus is a fetus until it is born, then it is a baby. Until it is born, it is SOLELY dependent on the host body/mother to sustain it. In otherwords, a mother should have a choice on whether she wishes to spend the next 9 months carrying, what amounts to the equivalent of a parasite, due to it's reliance on resources needed to grow from her, or if she would like to terminate the pregnancy. Pro lifers don't give the same reverence to born children as they do fetuses.

Oh, and for the record, Reverend Dr. King was PRO CHOICE. If you are going to use one of my race's biggest non violent voices for civil rights to push your agenda, you should take the time to look his ideals up.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford Laws about medical waste were established to protect living people. How's that immoral?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Research proves that if we go against nature, there are severe consequences both short-term and long term. Abortion is also done internally, hence it's invasively interacting with a living body. Our bodies are sensors and if you remove something before it is ready that sensor is being violated and hense there are severe molecular and biological consequences, according to the published medical research. That is why I don't shy away from sharing the truth, because I know that science is on the side of the truth.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1086417_648087923_960047851_q.jpg
Katie Einloth How dare you Elijah! Cancer is alive, viable and require's the host's body to continue to live. How can you sit there and deny the voiceless cancer it's voice?! You are heartless!
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1085729_100000705244377_1213512256_q.jpg
Jae Marino Ok, so let's regroup: it appears that "biohazard bags" and such make you feel icky. Well, they're not supposed to make you feel pretty. Trash is trash. It's not a Hallmark card, unless you want it to be.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford Medicine and surgery go against nature. Chemicals go against nature. These are things I'm glad to have. Nature can be improved upon. If you don't like it, don't use medications. Your choice.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford Lets see this "research". I can't wait.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1119024_100004969598191_799626748_q.jpg
Michael Lang If a fetus is a human being:

How come the census doesn't count them?
When there's a miscarriage there's not a funeral?
When a woman is pregnant she says "we have two children and one on the way" instead of saying "we have three children"?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1118282_100004430322889_1831323329_q.jpg
Jackie Turner Elijah, so you're going to start protesting against ALL medical procedures? All medications too I hope. None of them are natural. A medical procedure isn't natural for the body.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/t5/s32x32/273910_100003133977001_187989720_q.jpg
Sam Winchest I guess if you have a heart attack or stroke elijah you wouldn't go get medical attention right?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez I am talking about abortion... abortion can't be compared with a haircut, or getting your nails trimmed.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1085729_100000705244377_1213512256_q.jpg
Jae Marino Snowflakes are natural and unique, too. Where are the people holding up pics of bloody melted snowmen, protesting winter? How dare they be so heartless and inhumane, everyone knows
that snow is a gift from the Lord sent here to remind us to buy
snow shovels! See? It's the same circular, senseless logic.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1086417_648087923_960047851_q.jpg
Katie Einloth Yes! Our bodies are sensors - so how dare you justify the removal of cancer! People will face the consequences of going against nature! Cancer is natural. Cancer is alive. ELIJAH LEARN TO LOVE CANCER! For the love of santity of life - save the cancer!
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford I was cursed the minute I had my wisdom teeth extracted!
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1118282_100004430322889_1831323329_q.jpg
Jackie Turner Elijah, so why aren't you protesting against all medical procedures?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1086417_648087923_960047851_q.jpg
Katie Einloth I cry myself to sleep every night for not seeing the LIGHT of the situation! I'll forever regret that my gall bladder is in a bio hazard bag Please, everyone, forgive me for my sins!
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford And no woman should ever be allowed to get a breast reduction, no matter how much back pain she has. Because you can't change nature!
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Julius, I worked in the drug clinical trials, and the truth is not everything you see on the medicine label is to be trusted. I know the procedures for side-effects reporting, and I know that even after the FDA has approved something, that doesn't necesarily means that it's safe... there are side effects in certain cases that show up years later. Cancer is a long-term side-effect of abortion, which was confirmed by independent studies done in several countries. I would not wish that on anyone.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford I enjoy the benefits of medicine. If you don't, don't take them. But what I take is between me and my doctor.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford Cancer is a side effect of a lot of things, including the sun. It's up to the patient and doctor to evaluate the risks and benefits.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1086417_648087923_960047851_q.jpg
Katie Einloth Every time I see the needle lock boxes hanging up in my doctor's office with "Biohazard" written on it, I'm reminded of my sins. How could I have let them remove my gall bladder? How can I let them treat me for cancer! For LIFE is LIFE and who am I to end LIFE?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford I still weep for those wisdom teeth, thinking about what might have been.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez I am not against all medicines... I am for the medicines that aleviate a disease... a developing human is not a disease and because the drugs seek to target the developing human, it also targets the mother in one way or another.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1118282_100004430322889_1831323329_q.jpg
Jackie Turner So I should just let my Lupus and Crohns run their natural course? I guess it pretty unnatural to get medication? Best cancel tomorrow's infliximab.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford Abortion cures an unwanted medical condition. The fact that you don't like it is irrelevant, since you have no uterus.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/623486_1357633743_475495037_q.jpg
Christianne Hudson Oh, and might I add that spontaneous abortion, or miscarriages are abundant? It is why some people cannot get pregnant. You have to have the perfect storm of situations on how a woman gets pregnant, hence why it takes some people a lot longer than just one try for pregnancy to stick. Life from conception would be a spiritual concept, except the fact that that same concept would place God as the number one factor for miscarriages and the inability to get pregnant.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1118282_100004430322889_1831323329_q.jpg
Jackie Turner Elijah, if I get cancer it will most likely be because it runs in my family, or because I smoke, or because I use deodorant, not because I aborted a foetus.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez These researchers are doctors. The sad part is that this issue of abortion has become so politicized that people don't even care about the consequence they just want to take their side, ignore evidence, or science and blindly advocate for their rights. Doesn't that sound scary... it's like willingly blindfolding yourself and ignoring the consequence of driving off the cliff, because it's your right to drive a car.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford Do you have weird hang ups about sex? I'm guessing yes.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford You mention "science" a lot with no substantiating evidence.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1119597_752981340_411918066_q.jpg
Jennie Trott Finley "a developing human is not a disease"

Hey, look at that, guys! Elijah just COMPLETELY eliminated maternal death and injury with one sentence - we're FREE, people! From here on out, all pregnancies will end in completely healthy live births at term with NO risk at all to the mother! And all because Elijah says developing humans are incapable of hurting their host... or, to be more accurate, #becausewizards.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford Using deodorant has a benefit and a risk. Are you against deodorant?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1085729_100000705244377_1213512256_q.jpg
Jae Marino I predict someone's gonna start cryin soon
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1076441_545460402_565541234_q.jpg
Brice Matter oh, awesome, the old 'abortion = slavery'... how can you ever get tired of comparing the systematic oppression of a population with a medical procedure, it just never gets old
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-frc1/t5/s32x32/275367_1516838055_1174074655_q.jpg
Melinda Marcellus Should a white guy really use the image of a black guy to talk about oppression? You are an American correct?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Jennie, with all due respect, you seemed to jump into the conversation without following the contect and the dialogue that we were having with other members of the group... please read the line of thought here.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1086417_648087923_960047851_q.jpg
Katie Einloth Imma pray to Baby Jesus for Elijah to see the wickedness of his ways! For he does not realize that The All Mighty has created all LIFE including the life of Cancer. I pray that God shines light on his evil ways and turns him to the sanctity of life!
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Brice, a medical procedure? What is the disease here?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1118282_100004430322889_1831323329_q.jpg
Jackie Turner Elijah, so you can only have a medical procedure if you have a disease?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1119597_752981340_411918066_q.jpg
Jennie Trott Finley With all due respect, Elijah, I read the entire thread, and the multiple times you asserted that pregnancy can never be considered a disease. Thus, pregnancy cannot cause bodily injury, because if a biological process causes bodily injury it is classed as a disease. Thus, maternal death and injury must not exist.

Try to logic. It's considered an important skill in those who have actually BEEN to college.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1085729_100000705244377_1213512256_q.jpg
Jae Marino I no longer come onto these pages for debate. While I can sure enough appreciate--and support and continue to learn from-my pro-choice, life-affirming, highly educated brothers and sisters, and the amazing work that they do, I have come to the healthy (for me) conclusion that bodily autonomy is simply a matter not up for debate. If anything, I saunter here to not only exercise my writing skills, but to amuse and be amused, in kind. I have also concluded that through the relentless terrorism that is Christianity, more and more people are becoming brain-damaged by the buttload every second of every day, in short, there's simply no reasoning to be done with these people. It goes without saying that not only are they the ultimate source of embarrassment, hindrance to progress and also the reason we can't have nice things, they're dangerous and harbor subhuman elements within their cerebral make-up. Roe v. Wade will never be overturned, of that we can all be sure. Deluding oneself that Jesus himself went about knocking women on the head entering Planned Parenthood clinics with a rolled up newspaper is a sure sign that some of us need to back away from the godbag trough full of that heady, brain-atrophying juice. The thing about pigs is, pigs like to roll around in mud puddles. If you choose to do that with one, you soon not only get filthy and sick, but you also recognize that the pig enjoys it way too much.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn1/t5/s32x32/41472_1371407591_6134_q.jpg
Grace Alexander A fetus is, medically and scientifically,, a parasite. Anyone who pretends it has the right to overturn the host's rights is full of it - whatever he claims to be. He claims to "know science" but he doesn't grasp the most basic tenets. *eyeroll*. On noes, will he "warn" me now?

Pseudo science isn't actual science. Medical ethics isn't determined by your skydaddy. My right to bodily autonomy is supreme.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn1/t5/s32x32/41472_1371407591_6134_q.jpg
Grace Alexander Abortion is safer than pregnancy and childbirth. FACT.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford Abortion treats an unwanted medical condition. I already explained that. So why do you have hang ups about sex?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/1115844_732171561_1764842961_q.jpg
Lisa Kitchen If abortion causes cancer so does miscarriage seeing how the process is the same.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn1/t5/s32x32/41472_1371407591_6134_q.jpg
Grace Alexander Every minute, at least one woman dies from complications related to pregnancy or childbirth – that means 287 000 women a year. In addition, for every woman who dies in childbirth, around 20 more suffer injury, infection or disease – approximately 10 million women each year.

Five direct complications account for most of maternal deaths: haemorrhage , infection, unsafe abortion, eclampsia (very high blood pressure leading to seizures –, and obstructed labour. While these are the main causes of maternal death, unavailable, inaccessible, unaffordable, or poor quality care is fundamentally responsible. Maternal deaths are detrimental to social development and wellbeing, as some one million children are left motherless each year. These children are more likely to die within 1-2 years of their mothers' death.

Women need not die in childbirth. We must give a young woman the information and support she needs to control her reproductive health, help her through a pregnancy, and care for her and her newborn well into childhood. The vast majority of maternal deaths could be prevented if women had access to quality family planning services, skilled care during pregnancy, childbirth and the first month after delivery, or post-abortion care services and where permissible, safe abortion services. 15% of pregnancies and childbirths need emergency obstetric care because of risks that are difficult to predict. A working health system with skilled personnel is key to saving these women's lives.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Lisa, the process is not the same. Miscarriage doesn't cause cancer, but abortion does. It's a different biological process for both.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford Um, no. The body doesn't know the difference.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/1115844_732171561_1764842961_q.jpg
Lisa Kitchen Same hormones released.

You're a crappy scientist.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Grace, a human fetus is NOT a parasite. Science and medicine proves otherwise. A parasite comes from outside of the body, and is of another species than the host, yet a prenatal human comes from inside of the body, and the body of the mother welcomes it and has been preparing for him/her. Also the prenatal human is of the same species as the mother, and in fact it is the mother's offspring...so it is biologically, and emotionally connected.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford Not every woman welcomes a pregnancy. Proof: abortion.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1085729_100000705244377_1213512256_q.jpg
Jae Marino The only "cancer" abortion causes is the death of some male's ego somewhere because not every woman on earth is eager to gestate his DNA all because he has some sort of problem with the fact that he's gonna die someday and he might not be able to project his imagined omnipotence onto a child.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/1115844_732171561_1764842961_q.jpg
Lisa Kitchen It has parasitic qualities
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/623486_1357633743_475495037_q.jpg
Christianne Hudson I like how he completely glossed over anything I have stated so far in this thread, especially on his insult to Reverend Dr. King's memory in twisting his words and ideals to suit his needs. I bet he doesn't even know that Reverend Dr. King was one of the original recipients of the Margret Sanger award.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1119597_752981340_411918066_q.jpg
Jennie Trott Finley Absolutely true, Lisa. Except you'll never hear a so-called pro-lifer claim that - not because it's completely untrue and they have no more factual and peer-reviewed studies to back up that claim than they do to back up their asinine "abortion=cancer" claim. No, the reason they don't make that claim is because the REAL reason "abortion=cancer", in their minds, is righteous punishment for the woman's compounded sins - first the sin of engaging in sexual intercourse, then the sin of not gestating the consequences of Sin #1 to term. Although so-called pro-lifers are happy to prosecute women for miscarriages, they aren't QUITE willing to put the same death-curse upon all women with inadequate uteri - because they just might reveal themselves for the judgmental zealots they really are.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez On the molecular, physiological,and hormonal level, a woman's body is prepared for the gestation and development of the fellow human.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1119024_100004969598191_799626748_q.jpg
Michael Lang I'm eager to see OP's responses to Julius' questions. Since, you know, he seems so invested in the personal decisions of others.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/1115844_732171561_1764842961_q.jpg
Lisa Kitchen I'd like to know what exactly in abortion causes cancer. The exact hormone name and process. I'll wait. And i'd like to know how the same hormones in a miscarriage don't produce the same outcome
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford And my sweat glands are prepared to sweat. But I use deodorant. Because I prefer modern conveniences to nature.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/1115844_732171561_1764842961_q.jpg
Lisa Kitchen C sections and maternal death are all fairy tales to him.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1086417_648087923_960047851_q.jpg
Katie Einloth awww. Elijah is ignoring my religious rantings.... Could it be that he comprehends that his views actually have no basis in this conversation? That he won't accept facts for what they are because his male ego is inflated? That by accepting the truth he must admit that he has lied about his education?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1119597_752981340_411918066_q.jpg
Jennie Trott Finley "a prenatal human comes from inside of the body, and the body of the mother welcomes it and has been preparing for him/her."

Yep, NO possibility of the host rejecting the fetus ANYWHERE EVER. http://americanpregnancy.org/pregnancycom.../rhfactor-2.html
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/186118_100005071261184_1088464530_q.jpg
Samantha Thompson Where is your proof on cancer is linked to abortion? There is none.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/186118_100005071261184_1088464530_q.jpg
Samantha Thompson In fact, in birth there's more hormones being released than in abortion/miscarriage.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1118282_100004430322889_1831323329_q.jpg
Jackie Turner If their bodies are prepared for it, why do so many women suffer? Why do so many women die?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1118029_38420220_8461861_q.jpg
Lindsey Morgan Jesus Christ, kid. Stop spamming every pro choice page you come across.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1119597_752981340_411918066_q.jpg
Jennie Trott Finley "If you are Rh-negative, you may develop antibodies to an Rh-positive baby. If a small amount of the baby’s blood mixes with your blood, which often happens, your body may respond as if it were allergic to the baby. Your body may make antibodies to the Rh antigens in the baby’s blood. This means you have become sensitized and your antibodies can cross the placenta and attack your baby’s blood. They break down the fetus’s red blood cells and produce anemia (the blood has a low number of red blood cells). This condition is called hemolytic disease or hemolytic anemia. It can become severe enough to cause serious illness, brain damage, or even death in the fetus or newborn."

Seriously, one more epic fail like that one and I'm out of here. I like my prey to have a bit more meat on its bones... toying with the mentally challenged gets boring.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Grace, not true, especially when you consider the long-term effects. Medical Journals of multiple big studies on abortion done around the world is quite revealing of the truth that cannot be denied.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford Sex hangups.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1085597_38905713_1861755203_q.jpg
Jennifer Campbell Go home, Roger.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1086417_648087923_960047851_q.jpg
Katie Einloth The processes of a woman's menstural cycle is no reflection of a obligation to remain pregnant, nor an indication that the pregnancy will result in a healthy birth. Clearly you're unable to think logically. May I suggest drilling a hole into your head and using a straw to rearrange the cells of your brain? It might help you in the long run.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1118029_38420220_8461861_q.jpg
Lindsey Morgan "On the molecular, physiological,and hormonal level, a woman's body is prepared for the gestation and development of the fellow human."

So what?

You've already gotten your ass handed to you on this topic. You're appealing to nature. Just because something is natural does not mean it is good or right or appropriate.

Sex is natural. A vagina was "made" to host a penis. Guess what we call it when a penis enters a vagina without consent? Guess?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/186118_100005071261184_1088464530_q.jpg
Samantha Thompson Every 90 seconds a woman some where in the world dies due to pregnancy and delivery.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford Link to your sources, or they don't exist.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/623486_1357633743_475495037_q.jpg
Christianne Hudson Come on Elijah, are you going to address my comments, or gloss over them still because you were called out for misusing Reverend Dr. King's words and ideals to promote your anti choice ideals?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1118282_100004430322889_1831323329_q.jpg
Jackie Turner Links or it didn't happen.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1118029_38420220_8461861_q.jpg
Lindsey Morgan "Grace, not true, especially when you consider the long-term effects."

Bunk, kid.

Do your fucking homework.

Rookus MA, van Leeuwen FE: Induced abortion and risk for breast cancer: reporting (recall) bias in a Dutch case-control study. J Natl Cancer Inst 88 (23): 1759-64, 1996.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8944006?dopt=Abstract

Melbye M, Wohlfahrt J, Olsen JH, et al.: Induced abortion and the risk of breast cancer. N Engl J Med 336 (2): 81-5, 1997.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8988884?dopt=Abstract

Sanderson M, Shu XO, Jin F, et al.: Abortion history and breast cancer risk: results from the Shanghai Breast Cancer Study. Int J Cancer 92 (6): 899-905, 2001.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11351314?dopt=Abstract

Ye Z, Gao DL, Qin Q, et al.: Breast cancer in relation to induced abortions in a cohort of Chinese women. Br J Cancer 87 (9): 977-81, 2002.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12434288?dopt=Abstract

Mahue-Giangreco M, Ursin G, Sullivan-Halley J, et al.: Induced abortion, miscarriage, and breast cancer risk of young women. Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev 12 (3): 209-14, 2003.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12646509?dopt=Abstract

Erlandsson G, Montgomery SM, Cnattingius S, et al.: Abortions and breast cancer: record-based case-control study. Int J Cancer 103 (5): 676-9, 2003.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12494478?dopt=Abstract

Beral V, Bull D, Doll R, et al.: Breast cancer and abortion: collaborative reanalysis of data from 53 epidemiological studies, including 83,000 women with breast cancer from 16 countries. Lancet 363 (9414): 1007-16, 2004.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15051280?dopt=Abstract

Breast cancer risk in relation to abortion: Results from the EPIC study
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ijc.22001/full

The relative risk of breast cancer among women who reported ever having had an induced abortion when compared to women who reported never having had an induced abortion was 0.95 (0.87–1.03). Overall, the findings provide further unbiased evidence of the lack of an adverse effect of induced abortion on breast cancer risk. © 2006 Wiley-Liss, Inc.

Induced abortions and the risk of all cancers combined and site-specific cancers in Shanghai
http://www.springerlink.com/content/t6872k1580174376/

Cox Proportional Hazards analysis was used to calculate incidence rate ratios for specific types of cancer in women who ever had an induced abortion and by number of induced abortions. Women who had had an abortion were not at increased risk of cancer. There was a significant reduction in risk of uterine corpus cancer in women who had ever had an induced abortion, and a significant decreasing trend in risk with increasing number of induced abortions. No convincing associations with other cancers were observed. Women who have induced abortions after a live birth are not at increased risk of cancer and induced abortions may reduce risk of cancer of the corpus uteri.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1119024_100004969598191_799626748_q.jpg
Michael Lang My fiancee is a Christian and generally speaking pro-life. However, we have discussed this topic to some degree, and even she agrees that if the fetus is going to be severely deformed and/or threaten her health, she will readily abort.

Because common sense.

Abortion is about preserving the QUALITY of life, not quantity.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1085729_100000705244377_1213512256_q.jpg
Jae Marino These people need nothing less than to go to what I would call "education camps" where they are reworked from the ground up, to reverse the brain damage caused by religion and anti-
choice propaganda. The damage can only be arrested at this point. There's your cure for cancer, hope that blinded you with science
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1119597_752981340_411918066_q.jpg
Jennie Trott Finley By the way, while we're discussing "natural", anyone want to inform this guy that several species of mammals throughout the natural world have the ability to re-absorb their already-conceived fetuses when they deem conditions not prime to support offspring? Gee, sounds JUST like a pregnancy termination to me.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn1/t5/s32x32/623857_100004557062250_545026516_q.jpg
Alicia Harkness Too bad MLK was an ardent supporter of reproductive rights and Planned Parenthood and one of the original recipients of the Margaret Sanger award.

And too bad no one actually says "it's a blob of tissue." It doesn't matter that a fetus is human: it's using a woman's body and she has the right to remove it if she has not given or revokes consent.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Jennie, I am familiar with Rh+ / Rh-...and that condition is a disease, which I am grateful that our medicine is far advanced to treat that. That is a heroic act when a human intervenes in such disease and causes a survival of the baby. Abortion is not a medical disease... that is why people call it a "choice". Moreover, abortion is the opposite of this condition because in Rh factor condition the body is rejecting the surface receptors on the cell (Rh), but in abortion...the body wants to retain the baby yet the mother's "choice" is to go against her body's and commit this act. In Rh case, the human involvement through medicine, saves the baby, in abortion the human involvement kills the baby.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/s32x32/195643_100007109823943_1025703112_q.jpg
Sharon Michelle B Lindsey he's been banned from two pages so far.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1118029_38420220_8461861_q.jpg
Lindsey Morgan Did NARAL punt his ass off their page?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/s32x32/195643_100007109823943_1025703112_q.jpg
Sharon Michelle B Yep they just did Lindsey.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1118029_38420220_8461861_q.jpg
Lindsey Morgan Awesome.

I think people's brain cells were starting to suicide.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1118282_100004430322889_1831323329_q.jpg
Jackie Turner Elijah, how cold abortion be a disease? That's like saying tumor removal is a disease.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1118282_100004430322889_1831323329_q.jpg
Jackie Turner Yep. NARAL booted him.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez I welcome any conversation of those that are seeking the truth, reason and science. I am not going to argue with people that want to hate me for my knowledge, rooted in science. I thought we are in the era of science and reason!
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/186118_100005071261184_1088464530_q.jpg
Samantha Thompson What baby?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1118029_38420220_8461861_q.jpg
Lindsey Morgan "that want to hate me for my knowledge, rooted in science. I thought we are in the era of science and reason!"

Honey, you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground on the topics of science and reason. You've proven that time and again.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1085729_100000705244377_1213512256_q.jpg
Jae Marino Elijah, you've been lied to. You have been seriously, seriously, gravely lied to. You have been robbed of a truly educated, worthwhile and productive existence. You cannot get those years of walking in ignorance and darkness back, but you can turn this ignorance around. Silence your ego. What they told you were lies. You see that now, I know you do!
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/s32x32/195643_100007109823943_1025703112_q.jpg
Sharon Michelle B The truth is...MY life, MY body, MY pregnancy, MY choice...PERIOD. You little fellow have NO truth or facts.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/186382_1360846648_688696044_q.jpg
Sheila Hamilton Elijah, your claims to want a genuine dialogue are bogus; you don't. You want to place the demands of a non-viable embryo above the humanity and dignity of a breathing, thinking, feeling woman who is in a situation where she genuinely feels she could not bring up a child. What about your acknowledgement of OUR humanity? Or are we only carriers, walking wombs?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1086417_648087923_960047851_q.jpg
Katie Einloth All studies that conclude abortion leads to cancer are comparative studies - not scientific. As a self-proclaimed scientist you should be well aware of the differences. The "researchers" looked at the medical files of women with cancer to see what percentage had an abortion. The "studies" do not account for 1) genetics 2) medications the women have used. 3) diet 4) extensive exposure to chemicals and radiation in the woman's life time 5) other diseases the woman has had 6) and any thing else that could have given the woman cancer. The "studies" also never mention what percentage of the women looked at had miscarriages, how many children non-postive abortive women have, what type of abortion they had, at what week in the pregnancy they aborted, if they aborted for medical conditions.... Highly flawed, my friend. And you completly invalidated yourself within this post by bringing up these studies.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1118282_100004430322889_1831323329_q.jpg
Jackie Turner Elijah, what makes you think any of us hate you?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Jae, please point out one lie that I have said.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Can you think of one? I strived to speak the truth, to the best of science, and reason.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/1115844_732171561_1764842961_q.jpg
Lisa Kitchen "abortion causes cancer"
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Lisa, there's the hard truth. I don't wish that on anyone.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/186118_100005071261184_1088464530_q.jpg
Samantha Thompson You can't say you speak the truth if you can't prove your abortion causes cancer.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/1117871_749192308_437219170_q.jpg
Kelly Williams And yet, you're a-ok with dehumanizing the woman, as if she's not involved in this equation. Her life, which is already well established and contributing to society is non-existent, a blob of tissue that requires no exception, no thought, no consideration whatsoever. And, biologically, medically speaking, a fetus isn't a human life. It's a potential life. Potential doesn't = actual. Spritually, it isn't yet separate from the mother, and if your Christian, in the bible, god doesn't breath life into a baby until the baby draws first breath.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/186393_100004279843797_941701154_q.jpg
Tera Powers You strive to force births. Stop fucking lying.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1119024_100004969598191_799626748_q.jpg
Michael Lang Sex hangups.

Also, no one here hates you. Some of us pity you, some of us are laughing at your expense, all of us wonder if you see the opposite sex as nothing more than incubators.

Maybe you can answer that for us?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1118029_38420220_8461861_q.jpg
Lindsey Morgan "pregnancy is good because it's natural"

Granted, I'm paraphrasing because you rambled, but there it is.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez It has been proven by multiple researchers around the world. Please search PubMed and you will see.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/1115844_732171561_1764842961_q.jpg
Lisa Kitchen "pregnancy is beneficial"
Yet can't explain how
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1118029_38420220_8461861_q.jpg
Lindsey Morgan "what makes you think any of us hate you?"

Self-aggrandizing personality?

No one hates you, poppet. You're not worth the time or energy.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/186393_100004279843797_941701154_q.jpg
Tera Powers Jesus Christ.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/186118_100005071261184_1088464530_q.jpg
Samantha Thompson I'll believe CDC, NIH, and WHO.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/186118_100005071261184_1088464530_q.jpg
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/623486_1357633743_475495037_q.jpg
Christianne Hudson Oh, so you mean you are only going to address those you think you can win an argument against? Nevermind those of us who have picked apart your argument or called you out on your use of misquotes and lies. I stated the truth in the fact that you have sullied the memory of Reverend Dr. King when you took his quote and misquoted it to suit your ideals that you think might be situated in facts.

Your argument on this page has been picked apart, refuted, and links given. Now, I ask you again, are you going to address my comments or shall I claim this as a vote of no confidence in your own argument? I am waiting.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/186393_100004279843797_941701154_q.jpg
Tera Powers Even if abortion and cancer were linked it's none of your business whether women decide to have one.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1118029_38420220_8461861_q.jpg
Lindsey Morgan "It has been proven by multiple researchers around the world."

You've already been called on the bullshit.

Cite your sources here or shut up.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez It's true, a pregnancy is beneficial for the mother. The relationship is mutual. I have to resort to short answers due to so many replies on here, but please ask me later, and I may go into details:)
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1085729_100000705244377_1213512256_q.jpg
Jae Marino Elijah, everything you've said on all of these pages have been lies. You are merely regurgitating everything that's been fed to you.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1086417_648087923_960047851_q.jpg
Katie Einloth It has never been proven. Comparative studies ARE NOT scientific studies. As a self-proclaimed scientist you should know the difference.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/186393_100004279843797_941701154_q.jpg
Tera Powers Lots of birth control methods carry health risks, too. And so does sex, for that matter. Let people make their own decisions.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1119477_767719054_1619225915_q.jpg
Cindy Alicia Another mansplainer?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/186393_100004279843797_941701154_q.jpg
Tera Powers Oh, Doogie Howser, you have picked the wrong forum. PPA is full of brainiac women and men who will eviscerate you, and no smiley face is gonna save your ass. Run along.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/186118_100005071261184_1088464530_q.jpg
Samantha Thompson He'll try the debunked stem cell crap.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1086417_648087923_960047851_q.jpg
Katie Einloth Death is not a "healthy" aspect of pregnancy. Neither is gastational diabetes and the over 100 medical conditions that can arise.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/186393_100004279843797_941701154_q.jpg
Tera Powers Shit, my brother spent a FORTUNE paying for my nephew's UC Davis education. To think snot-nosed little buttinkskis with zero knowledge of their own fucking MAJOR will claim to come from the same school? My brother would explode.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1085729_100000705244377_1213512256_q.jpg
Jae Marino I'm not saying the people who told you all of these things are evil, but...they're rotten dirty fuckin liars.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1119477_767719054_1619225915_q.jpg
Cindy Alicia "It's true, a pregnancy is beneficial for the mother. The relationship is mutual."

Only a man who will never know what it's like to be pregnant would say this.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Lindsey, I don't want to do all the work... I want a team effort... please search PubMed. Once the responses cool down I can provide you with the link to the studies done all over the world.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1118029_38420220_8461861_q.jpg
Lindsey Morgan " I don't want to do all the work."

That's obvious, poppet.

But when you come on here making shit claims, you better damn well be ready to back them up.

And if you know, even a little, of what you're talking about, you would be able to link an article or two.

Stop being dense.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/186393_100004279843797_941701154_q.jpg
Tera Powers Buzz off.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1119597_752981340_411918066_q.jpg
Jennie Trott Finley Elijah, of COURSE "Abortion is not a medical disease" - it's a TREATMENT for a medical disease. Jeez, I thought THAT much was understood.

Seriously, though, pregnancy IS a medical condition with many serious risks attached to it, and to continue to claim anything different only shows your complete ignorance of the process. There are conditions that can only be treated by termination of the pregnancy - in prime conditions, that termination may end in a live birth, but sometimes that outcome is not possible.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1118029_38420220_8461861_q.jpg
Lindsey Morgan Feel like I'm arguing with a five year old.

"But I don't wanna!"
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Do you sincerely want evidence?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/186393_100004279843797_941701154_q.jpg
Tera Powers Are there any diseases that aren't "medical?" And how the fuck did you get into Davis?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1085729_100000705244377_1213512256_q.jpg
Jae Marino You want a "team effort"?
What do you think this is, a game show?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1118029_38420220_8461861_q.jpg
Lindsey Morgan We want you to cite your sources when you make claims.

Numerous people have told you this.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1086417_648087923_960047851_q.jpg
Katie Einloth He's refusing to post links because he knows all the studies state they're comparative and not scientific.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/s32x32/195643_100007109823943_1025703112_q.jpg
Sharon Michelle B READ the links provided for you.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Jennie, what is the medical disease called?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/186393_100004279843797_941701154_q.jpg
Tera Powers I feel like sending a screen shot of this to the dean of the Biology dept. at UCD.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/186393_100004279843797_941701154_q.jpg
Tera Powers "I don't want to be bothered with research.'
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/186393_100004279843797_941701154_q.jpg
Tera Powers Hey jackass: Women DIE IN PREGNANCY.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1086417_648087923_960047851_q.jpg
Katie Einloth "do you seriously want evidence?"...... Uhh. That is what Lindsey has been asking for, is it not?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1085729_100000705244377_1213512256_q.jpg
Jae Marino Oh, I get it. Elijah is obviously enjoying all this female attention. Big surprise. He's being a bad little boy and milking it for all its worth. Some changes within his mind have probably been made, but he's gonna ride this one all the way out to hoping he'll catch a glimpse of a slipped nip or something.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1119024_100004969598191_799626748_q.jpg
Michael Lang Lol Tera. Do it.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Sure, I welcome dialogue. I would love to debate anyone, anywhere on this topic and it might even be fun to watch and learn something.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/186393_100004279843797_941701154_q.jpg
Tera Powers Anyone using the term "medical disease" does not belong in a conversation like this.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez I have no fear of science, reason or medicine... I am on their side.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/623486_1357633743_475495037_q.jpg
Christianne Hudson I'm going to address everyone else in this thread and say the amount of evidence you guys have piled up against his argument is astounding. Watching ya'll spank him at his own psuedo scientific game is pure joy. Not to mention, watching him be flustered enough to completely ignore my words was icing on the cake. You guys are awesome.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/186393_100004279843797_941701154_q.jpg
Tera Powers I am no fan of intrusive jackasses who are barely old enough to shave.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Sorry Christianne, what was your question... I am one and you are many, so you can see I am limited, but I welcome your question.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/186393_100004279843797_941701154_q.jpg
Tera Powers Yes, we see you are limited.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/t5/s32x32/273910_100003133977001_187989720_q.jpg
Sam Winchest And yet you claim pregnancy doesn't harm women and that women should be forced to remain pregnant and give birth
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1118029_38420220_8461861_q.jpg
Lindsey Morgan And he continues to piddle around.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1085729_100000705244377_1213512256_q.jpg
Jae Marino Little Boy King here wants to imagine himself in control and maneuver everyone into looking things up on the internet. Sorry to burst your bubble, but whoever told you that you were powerful was just trying to get you to eat your vegetables. That you would grow up big and strong. And you may have, but today you're realizing that others can be stronger where it most counts.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/186393_100004279843797_941701154_q.jpg
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Pregnancy is painful but benefits women in many ways.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1118282_100004430322889_1831323329_q.jpg
Jackie Turner Elijah if pregnancy didn't harm women, why is my mother still suffering from pregnancy and giving birth?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/t5/s32x32/186432_554992881_567306373_q.jpg
Dawn Carman I love how Elijah is using a pic of MLK to make his OP considering MLK supported Planned Parenthood.

The irony is delicious.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1119477_767719054_1619225915_q.jpg
Cindy Alicia Elijah, you seriously said women should be forced to remain pregnant and give birth? Seriously?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/186393_100004279843797_941701154_q.jpg
Tera Powers OK, this is boring. Moving on.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1118029_38420220_8461861_q.jpg
Lindsey Morgan " but benefits women in many ways."

Citation needed.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/186393_100004279843797_941701154_q.jpg
Tera Powers looks up the word "suplication" before leaving .. oh wait, it doesn't exist.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/t5/s32x32/186432_554992881_567306373_q.jpg
Dawn Carman What benefits Elijah?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Being a woman is a responsibility. The woman should not use her position or "choice" to pick on the life of a defenceless innoscent human, who is related to her. That is morally and biologically wrong. Talk about the abuse of power!
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/t5/s32x32/186432_554992881_567306373_q.jpg
Dawn Carman Elijah Cherkez... you do not get to lecture us on how to be women, sweetpea.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/623486_1357633743_475495037_q.jpg
Christianne Hudson You have eyes, Elijah. Go through the thread and read. And I am damn sure you saw what I wrote several times because you addressed the persons in front of me, then behind me, completely skipping over what I said. I am one person and I managed to keep up with this thread. Unless you are intentionally skipping what i wrote, then you have seen what I said.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1119024_100004969598191_799626748_q.jpg
Michael Lang So you've succinctly answered our questions, though not necessarily in these exact words:

"Yes, women are meant to be incubators!"
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1118029_38420220_8461861_q.jpg
Lindsey Morgan Fuck it.

I have very little time for self aggrandizing, smarmy, obviously religiously stunted idiots who think they know something but can't back up their own arguments and instead continue to ramble on with gender essentialist nonsense and logical fallacies.

It's time for tea and more important things.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1119597_752981340_411918066_q.jpg
Jennie Trott Finley *facepalm*

abruption
breech birth
cephalo-pelvic disproportion
diabetes
eclampsia
ectopic pregnancy
gestational diabetes
Group B Streptococcus infection
HELLP syndrome
hypertension
hysterectomy
Intrauterine Growth Restriction (IUGR)
macrosomia (big baby)
miscarriage or stillbirth
obstetric fistula
obstetric hemorrhage
Pelvic girdle pain
placenta praevia
pre-eclampsia
premature birth, preterm labor or prematurity
uterine rupture
uterine incarceration

And that's a PARTIAL list of complications. Knock of the disingenuous "butterflies and rainbows" description of pregnancy and childbirth, Elijah, everyone here knows better than that. SOME of us here know better in very personal ways, as well... and trust me, you do NOT want to poke that bear.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez I want to impart knowledge, ask a scientist to review my comments and I will gladly answer anything that you find questionable or untrue.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/186118_100005071261184_1088464530_q.jpg
Samantha Thompson My job is being a wife and a parent to my step daughter since both her donors (not parents but DONORS) won't/can't have anything to do with her.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1086417_648087923_960047851_q.jpg
Katie Einloth Abuse of power? Its never abusive to take control of your own body. Youre just a pathetic little boy who believes you'll get Jesus brownie points by trying to control women, using fake scientific "facts" to back yourself up all because you believe we're mindless sheep who will follow a "big and powerful man".
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/1117814_516770800_777237859_q.jpg
Martha Scott If you were so pro life you'd support the lives of women and their agency to make their own choices!! I am not a human incubator I have MY OWN autonomy and welfare to consider. Women have rights too and they have a right to decide when we get to have children. There are already millions of unwanted children, why create more?!
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Samantha, that is admirable of you! Here's a woman of honor, for being so altruistic!
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1118029_38420220_8461861_q.jpg
Lindsey Morgan " I want to impart knowledge, ask a scientist to review my comments and I will gladly answer anything that you find questionable or untrue."

No, you won't, witless.

You've been asked time and again to provide sources for your claims.

You refuse.

At best, you're disingenuous. At worst, you're a misogynistic little liar.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/t5/s32x32/186432_554992881_567306373_q.jpg
Dawn Carman Oh poor Elijah assumes NONE of us have medical/scientific knowledge.

A mansplainer, indeed. Lmao
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez I am waiting for people to give me a quick respite and then I will get you those sources
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/186118_100005071261184_1088464530_q.jpg
Samantha Thompson But my job is also to decide IF I want children. Trust me living with some of my medical conditions, I wish my pro liar mother would have aborted me.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/t5/s32x32/186432_554992881_567306373_q.jpg
Dawn Carman Being a stepmother isn't good enough for you?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1085729_100000705244377_1213512256_q.jpg
Jae Marino "Being a woman is a responsibility. The woman should not use her position or "choice" to pick on the life of a defenceless innoscent human, who is related to her. That is morally and biologically wrong. Talk about the abuse of power!"

Well well well. And there it is. Elijah, like so many other men (and women brainwashed to be ashamed of it), have a problem with women having power. We did not need a PhD to be reminded of this. We saw it coming. We always ride them out till they stop and spit this one out. And it always happens. We see, through our worthy work, what the problem actually is. Pregnancy renders a woman powerless in so many ways. If women aren't pregnant, no telling what we might do. Why, we might choose to not cook dinner and clean. Instead, we might decide to get in government or worse, take up some jobs that men assume they need to prove their ever-faltering egos.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1086417_648087923_960047851_q.jpg
Katie Einloth To impart knowledge you must actually impart knowledgle. You've done nothing but post misinformation under the guise of forcing your religious psycho babble of how "women were created to be sex and birthing slaves"
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/1117814_516770800_777237859_q.jpg
Martha Scott A biological cis man telling us about pregnancy and abortion rights?! Elijah gets to make the rules when he's able to have children!!
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Yes you can decide but not on the expense of a human life...and I am sure you know of ways that you can decide on having children without aborting them.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/1117814_516770800_777237859_q.jpg
Martha Scott What about cases of pregnancy by rape?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1118282_100004430322889_1831323329_q.jpg
Jackie Turner We're picking on foetuses?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/1117814_516770800_777237859_q.jpg
Martha Scott Elijah, fuck you. Fuck your patriarchal oppressive bullshit
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Samantha, I hope that you are not believing this lie of abortion so much to the point that you are projecting it on your own life. You are precious
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/t5/s32x32/186432_554992881_567306373_q.jpg
Dawn Carman Half of abortions are done by women who were taking preventative measures, Elijah.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1119477_767719054_1619225915_q.jpg
Cindy Alicia I always love how "pro life" men pretend that abortion affects their life, because obviously their abortion senses tingle everytime a woman gets one.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1086417_648087923_960047851_q.jpg
Katie Einloth My responsibility as a child-free woman is to ensure I bring 0.0% of unwanted children into this twisted worled via my vagina..... Your claims on "what a woman should be" have nothing to do with my desires.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/1115844_732171561_1764842961_q.jpg
Lisa Kitchen Still waiting on those "benefits"
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1086417_648087923_960047851_q.jpg
Katie Einloth No human life gets to exist at the expense of my body. Get it right, tiny dick.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/1115844_732171561_1764842961_q.jpg
Lisa Kitchen Why do you think it's a good idea to have someone gestated where they're unwanted?
Do you like when people have newborns and throw them into dumpsters?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1086317_1064430850_1324929028_q.jpg
Dan 'Eazy' Boseley Save all the babies while simultaneously hanging the homosexuals. That is all. Logic at its finest.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Dawn, please finish the sentence... preventative measures of what? What are they trying to prevent?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/186474_544081658_1127654269_q.jpg
Meg MacLean No one gets to use my body. Period. No one should be forced to be pregnant. Period. I have a right to life, my husband has a right to save his wife's life. I have a right to exist. Fuck your patriarchy. No one but ME gets to decide when I get pregnant and if I carry to term. It is MY body, MY choice MY RIGHT.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn1/t5/s32x32/623857_100004557062250_545026516_q.jpg
Alicia Harkness I think the real question is if he likes when women die. Because ban abortion and that's exactly what happens. More women die in childbirth and more women die from unsafe, illegal abortions.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Yup Meg, I agree you have the right to life! ... Please also check the thread above to see the context and the science behind what I said. I love dialogue.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1085729_100000705244377_1213512256_q.jpg
Jae Marino I find your attempts to be controlling and manipulative tasteless and obvious.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/1115844_732171561_1764842961_q.jpg
Lisa Kitchen He has 0 reading comprehension skills.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1086417_648087923_960047851_q.jpg
Katie Einloth I don't care if its proven 100% without a doubt that the fetus I'm carrying is Jesus fucking Christ. I will abort. Then after my abortion I'll tap dance my way through life with a smile on my face for the joy of making the right decision for my life and my body. And I'll throw tissues at you and your religiousally demented ilk, because you'll be crying rivers because your prayers had zero effect.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/1115844_732171561_1764842961_q.jpg
Lisa Kitchen Seeing how he has no interest in women I don't think he cares much about their death
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/t5/s32x32/186432_554992881_567306373_q.jpg
Dawn Carman Oh lord Elijah Cherkez. Learn English.

Preventative measures=birth control. I am not surprised you didn't understand a big word.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1119477_767719054_1619225915_q.jpg
Cindy Alicia "Martha Scott What about cases of pregnancy by rape?"

Well, Elijah?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1085729_100000705244377_1213512256_q.jpg
Jae Marino Your attempts to appeal to the respect choicers have for science using pseudo-science and your own bent "philosophies" as well as twisted views of what women "should" be are painfully obvious. You should be most embarrassed.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Jae, what did I say that is not true? Please point it out.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1119597_752981340_411918066_q.jpg
Jennie Trott Finley Right, Cindy? I'm still waiting for him to tell me that none of the twenty-two pregnancy complications that I listed are medical diseases or complications.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1086417_648087923_960047851_q.jpg
Katie Einloth I predict that he's going to provide "scientific evidence" that a woman's body shuts down when raped, and won't allow for a pregnancy.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1118282_100004430322889_1831323329_q.jpg
Jackie Turner Elijah where do you stand on abortion is cases of rape?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/186474_544081658_1127654269_q.jpg
Meg MacLean oh and let's not forget FATAL fetal anomalies that are not compatible at all with life! My fiance and I have talked at length about this. If that were to happen we would terminate, because it is cruel to allow suffering. And he holds my life above all else.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1086417_648087923_960047851_q.jpg
Katie Einloth For starters, Elijah, you started you have a biology degree. You've proven thats a lie!
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-frc1/s32x32/1209871_626187184060492_1205214976_q.jpg
I Love Abortions Aww, someone doesn't understand the right to bodily integrity. So adorable.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/t5/s32x32/1085773_100001908303475_54144803_q.jpg
Allisyn Joy Kearney Elijah- simple question. Do you know me?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-frc1/s32x32/1209871_626187184060492_1205214976_q.jpg
I Love Abortions Pretty much everything you said isn't true. But then, I expect you are just here for attention.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1119597_752981340_411918066_q.jpg
Jennie Trott Finley Meg, SHHHHH. I'm waiting for Elijah to poke that bear himself and see how fast it tears his head off and feasts on his liver.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1085729_100000705244377_1213512256_q.jpg
Jae Marino "Jae, what did I say that is not true? Please point it out."

Here, you are attempting yet again to "order" someone around. Putting a "please" in front of your demand won't work. Neither will I indulge this game of yours by the weak "challenge" inherent within it. You are the one making these claims, so the burden of proof is on you. Over and over you have been challenged to provide proof of your claims, yet you have neglected to do so. This is because there is no proof for your claims. You, my fine young sportsman, have failed tremendously this day, in so many ways that it's nearly impossible to separate them.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/623486_1357633743_475495037_q.jpg
Christianne Hudson I like that he still hasn't touched anything I said, especially on his use of Reverend Dr. King's quotes to suit his psuedo science.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Pregnancy complications are a medical concern and our medicine is getting better at resolving those. A big majority of abortions are due to "choice", and is promoted as such, which is sad!
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/623486_1357633743_475495037_q.jpg
Christianne Hudson Sadly, I don't think he realizes that the burden of proof is on him to prove his words with links and scientific facts, seeing as there has already been links disproving his "abortion causes cancer" words
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1086417_648087923_960047851_q.jpg
Katie Einloth I bet he's only christian because he's had women laugh about his tiny penis then walk out the door. Now he goes on Christian Mingle to find himself a wife who won't have sex before marriage..... That way she's trapped in a marriage without prior knowledge of his .... Height problem... In attempt to be viewed as a real christian he's taken on the hobby of preaching to women about how their bodies are not theirs to contorl, and we are obligated to the biological functions that the sky daddy has gifted us.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1119349_1450994249_1094515697_q.jpg
Jayme Calhoun wow, there is really no comparison here... I wonder if it hurts to twist that much and stretch so far...
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Dr. Martin Luther King said, "an injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere". (paraphrased). With that I will have to leave you, for a while. Have a nice day! We will reunite later
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Let there be Life not Lies
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/623486_1357633743_475495037_q.jpg
Christianne Hudson Elijah, hang it up. You have left the world of science, or psuedo science in your case, and gone into the world of opinion backed opinion, not fact backed opinion.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-frc1/s32x32/1209871_626187184060492_1205214976_q.jpg
I Love Abortions Elective abortions are 14x safer than childbirth. Thus, having an abortion is ALWAYS the healthier alternative for my body. I will get vacuumed out. If you want to carry to term, go for it.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-frc1/s32x32/1209871_626187184060492_1205214976_q.jpg
I Love Abortions Aww, he is running away to fap on Naral..
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/t5/s32x32/186432_554992881_567306373_q.jpg
Dawn Carman Elijah Cherkez. ..you REALLY need to quit pretending MLK was on your side.

It's tacky.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1119597_752981340_411918066_q.jpg
Jennie Trott Finley *grin* See ya, Elijah, I won't hold my breath for your return. I know your type - and you ALL run away when you realize you can't sell your lies to people who have the knowledge to refute them.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/373585_416415061731249_2063789479_q.jpg
River Firefly Holy crap. Elijah was so thoroughly demolished on this thread, I pity him from the bottom of my abortion-loving heart.

Or I would if he wasn't a patronizing, wilfully ignorant, scientifically illiterate, illogical, repetitive, misogynistic, sex essentialistic, walking appeal to nature.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1119024_100004969598191_799626748_q.jpg
Michael Lang What is "sad" about choice?

If a fetus is threatening the woman's life, she has the CHOICE to have that fetus removed to preserve her life. Are you implying there's something wrong with that?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1119597_752981340_411918066_q.jpg
Jennie Trott Finley "Let there be (proven viable human) Life not Lies (about fetal development and the undeniable and serious risks faced by pregnant women).

There, fixed it for you.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1086417_648087923_960047851_q.jpg
Katie Einloth Choices are never saddening when it comes to pregnancy. Evidence? Every day women CHOOSE to continue their pregnanies. Every day women CHOOSE to raise their children. Every day women CHOOSE to hand their children over to adoptive parents. The only saddening aspect is when women are preached to that pregnanct is an obligation, as is parenting, which results in unwanted children being neglected and abused. The neglect and abuse, in turn, leads to an highly increased chance the child will develope dependancy issues with alcohol and drug use. In turn of the addiction, more children are born to be neglected and abused. The cycle has been going on for centuries and will continue til the end of human kind because of people like Elijah.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn1/t5/s32x32/211362_100006829241550_1705878483_q.jpg
Inga Sjoberg Scientist my ass. He's a fucking research assistant.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/623486_1357633743_475495037_q.jpg
Christianne Hudson I do believe that with his hasty exit, yet again misquoting Reverend Dr. King, he is admitting he has no facts to back up his words.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn1/t5/s32x32/211362_100006829241550_1705878483_q.jpg
Inga Sjoberg He's more involved with prison ministry than "science". He has a bachelors, masters at the most.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1118029_38420220_8461861_q.jpg
Lindsey Morgan His stupidity is an insult to the rest of us.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/373585_416415061731249_2063789479_q.jpg
River Firefly His stupidity is an insult to humanity. How could this idiot even finish college?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/623486_1357633743_475495037_q.jpg
Christianne Hudson Time to call for the troll sweep. This was unimpressive and sadly he probably will come back wanting to spread his lies as truth, continuing to misuse MLK's words to suit his twisted anti-choice psuedo science. People like that, excuse my French, piss me off because they have no respect.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn1/t5/s32x32/211362_100006829241550_1705878483_q.jpg
Inga Sjoberg If he's a "research assistant", that usually means he's on the eight year plan for a bachelors.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/t5/s32x32/1119235_1574011945_752396439_q.jpg
Cara Martin's photo.

  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/1118620_100001272129138_724749024_q.jpg
Heather RantingYooper Who's got the fresh can of Troll-B-Gone?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/t5/s32x32/1119597_752981340_411918066_q.jpg
Jennie Trott Finley Cara... that is EPIC. This is for you:
Jennie Trott Finley's photo.

  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford I guess his mom came home and told him to zip his pants up and come out of the basement.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn1/t5/s32x32/161225_100002068827101_1373462661_q.jpg
Ronald Donald "Abortion causes cancer" Using Dr. King quotes to suit your anti abortion propganda...Pregnancy isn't complicated...
Ronald Donald's photo.

  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t1/c14.0.47.47/s32x32/600249_1002029915098_1903163647_t.jpg
Molly Van Horn Uh, no. My pregnancy didn't benefit me in any way. In fact, it was slowly taking my life. So I aborted. An actual doctor told me that if I didn't, I'd end up dead.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t1/c14.0.47.47/s32x32/600249_1002029915098_1903163647_t.jpg
Molly Van Horn And when will the non black folks stop using MLK to further their agenda? The majority of antis don't even like blacks. Oh the sweet irony.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/1116435_100004951424262_249822481_q.jpg
Sharon Kelly So according to Elijah I should regret my abortion. WHY should I regret it?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1085941_100000280596696_521065422_q.jpg
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford Every medical procedure has risks. So? People weigh the risks and benefits with their doctor, not with you.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez The greatest risk of abortion is the death of your relative, which you "chose" to die.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford You mean the death of the fetus? Well, yes. No shit.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/203090_100004608003598_355515146_q.jpg
Julius Handford Not everyone wants a fetus in their body.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez again...fetus is a developmental stage. Why do you avoid the issue of it's humanity?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/t5/s32x32/1085773_100001908303475_54144803_q.jpg
Allisyn Joy Kearney Nobody is saying a fetus is not human. Of course it is. The issue you are having trouble with is personhood. A fetus is not a person.

My hair is human. My blood is human. My heart is human, my skin is human. A fetus is human. But hair, blood, heart, skin, and fetus is not a person. Is that easier to understand?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez If it is a human then what you call "choice" is inhumane, because it is an individual, it is a person!
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/t5/s32x32/1085773_100001908303475_54144803_q.jpg
Allisyn Joy Kearney Cupcake, simply being human doesn't make something a person. A fetus, while human, is not a person.

And, "inhumane": without compassion for misery or suffering.

The majority of abortions are performed long before a fetus has developed any sort of sensory ability (before it can feel anything), and those rare LTA's ,done for medical reasons, the fetus is anesthetized before it is removed. Do you know what is inhumane? Forcing a woman to carry and give birth against her will.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Functionality or structures doesn't determine the humanity of something. There are many humans that do not have the right structures, or the right functionality. They are not less human for lacking those. A human is a human no matter the size. Once it is conceived it is a unique and separate individual, prenatal human. Science even confirms that. Every embryologist in the world knows that a human's life begins at conception.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Do not reffer to a prenatal human as a fetus, if by that you are trying to deny their humanity... it only confirms what this picture and the quote (on the left) is saying.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/t5/s32x32/1085773_100001908303475_54144803_q.jpg
Allisyn Joy Kearney Read carefully: nobody is. Denying. That. A. Fetus. Is. Human.

A. Fetus. Is. Not. A. Person. Because. It. Is. Not. Sentient. Or. Autonomous.

Did you get that?

Fetus is the correct term. Why are you offended by that? A fetus is a fetus. That is what it is.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/s32x32/195643_100007109823943_1025703112_q.jpg
Sharon Michelle B It is a fetus. Why do big words scare you?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/1116435_100004951424262_249822481_q.jpg
Sharon Kelly "Do not reffer to a prenatal human as a fetus" Why not that's what they are. Look at an ultrasound. it says FGA meaning FETAL Gestational Age. NO where on an ultrasound does it say "the baby weighs X amount" or "the baby is X amount of weeks". Why does the word FETUS scare you so much.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/1116435_100004951424262_249822481_q.jpg
Sharon Kelly Would Blastocyte be better? Zygote? Embryo? Clump of goo? Splitting cells
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/1116435_100004951424262_249822481_q.jpg
Sharon Kelly "The greatest risk of abortion is the death of your relative," Which one of my relatives will die if I abort? My cousin? My sister? My brother? My mom? My Auntie? Maybe my grandma died because I had an abortion in 1987.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash1/s32x32/186118_100005071261184_1088464530_q.jpg
Samantha Thompson Nope z/e/f, and it is not dehumanizing.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn1/t5/s32x32/623614_1593304040_215667530_q.jpg
Kristen Knoll That has to be one of the oddest and most foolish arguments against abortion that I have ever heard. One of my relatives will die if I abort? Lol...I'd love to hear the logic behind that.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Shannon...all of those names are developmental stages, yet they are humans! That is why people should reffer to them as babies or prenatal humans. Fetus is ok as long as you don't mean to use that term to negate the fact that they are humans.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/1116435_100004951424262_249822481_q.jpg
Sharon Kelly No shit the FETUS is HUMAN! What ELSE would a HUMAN female be pregnant with? Beagles? Maine coons? Dalmations? Oh I know she's pregnant with a siamang FETUS
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/1116435_100004951424262_249822481_q.jpg
Sharon Kelly The ARE a FETUS. Zygote, blastocyte, embryo, fetus ALL the same thing: human. Are you really this stupid or do you fucking practice it?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/1116435_100004951424262_249822481_q.jpg
Sharon Kelly No one SHOULD do anything. In that vein of thinking everyone SHOULD drive a Rolls Royce. Everyone SHOULD have everything they want. You SHOULD call the thing what it is: a fucking fetus.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/1116435_100004951424262_249822481_q.jpg
Sharon Kelly You make me want to get pregnant, abort, get pregnant and abort again. Plus video tape the abortion. Name it after you AND make a very large donation to Planned Parenthood in YOUR NAME.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-prn2/s32x32/1116435_100004951424262_249822481_q.jpg
Sharon Kelly And Elizahdouche my name is ShaRon NOT shannon.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Sharon, I'm glad that you agree that they are humans. Honestly most are in denial about the humanity part, so I congratulate you on believing this truth!
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1118282_100004430322889_1831323329_q.jpg
Jackie Turner Elijah, I've not once heard a pro choice person say that a foetus isn't human. That argument comes from prolifers, they just make arguments up. They may as well just "debate" with themselves.
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash2/s32x32/1118282_100004430322889_1831323329_q.jpg
Jackie Turner Why should you refer to a foetus as a baby? It isn't one. Do you refer to seeds as trees? Do you think a car engine is a fully functioning car?
  • https://fbcdn-profile-a.akamaihd.net/hprofile-ak-ash3/t5/s32x32/211299_566580132_1704408289_q.jpg
Elijah Cherkez Jackie, it is a baby...an ofspring, the little one, which is what a foetus means in Latin
Bottom of Form